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User talk:Jaigoda/Builds/A/W Imbasin
Giving this build another try. Go look at the massive archived talk page if you think this is crap. --JaiGoesMonksassin 14:45, 29 August 2009 (UTC) Interrupts are cool. Drahgal Meir 15:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC) :I really dont see how people dont like this build...they think moebius is win-all. when...it's not. Flesh Atrophy 15:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC) ::Moebius still is stronger than this in DPS, I do have to give it that. The only time this has higher DPS is when you have a several buffs on it. I think when you have Barbs, OoP, and SoH on both of them, they average out to about the same DPS. @Drah, if Dis Stab was .5s I would totally use it with Exhausting here, but tbh interupts aren't even incredibly useful in HM unless you have something to lengthen cast times. Anything with 1s cast or shorter would have to be timed to interupt. I'll add it to variants, though. --JaiGoesMonksassin 17:40, 29 August 2009 (UTC) Better? prof=A/W dag=12+1+1 cri=12+1Defenseof the AssassinScanStrikeAssaultFangsBlossomYourselves!"/build What we have here is a build that attacks just as fast a locust fury because it spams 1/2 second dagger attacks and dual attacks. The result is a build that even without asuran scan pumps out an average of 90dps on a 60AL character, and uses death blossom every 3 seconds for AoE. Mobeius imo is kinda out dated now that fox fangs has a 3 second recharge, death blossom can be spammed like crazy without mobeius. Make sure to use zealous daggers. Smity Smitington 17:56, 29 August 2009 (UTC) :Critical Defenses? Erm, why? You have SY! so your monk will be focusing on you pretty much.-- $ɧor₮ talk 17:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC) ::Just to kinda keep it similiar to the original build here, imo i wouldnt use it either. Smity Smitington 18:01, 29 August 2009 (UTC) ::: WotA fucking sucks. Also, if Anet still has any sort of brain matter left, they're gonna nerf Jagged>FF>DB, so I don't see much point in changing the build for half a month until the next update comes. Still, that build is actually probably superior to this at the moment ('cept with CA and an optional elite instead of CD and shitty WotA), and if Anet splits the .5s skills I'll probably mainbar it. Lol, even Flashing Blades would probably work with that build... Also, I have CD and Res Sig mainbarred simply because there aren't really any other good options. --JaiGoesMonksassin 18:08, 29 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Ok, it's possible that you could substitute WoTA for critical eye, and have another elite, the concept here is that spamming these four dagger attacks results in a as fast as locust fury attack speed plus does alot more damage. Smity Smitington 18:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC) So Until the next update, there isn't much point in doing anything with this. If Jagged/FF stays or gets split into PvE/PvP, then this will easily become the best assassin build in the game. If not, then this needs to go through testing again (with a vote wipe...) because it's still at least as good as Moebius. --JaiGoesMonksassin 22:31, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :still dont understand why you have critical defenses and sy should be optional. you could as easily be spamming brawling headbutt or something. also spamming ymlad/fh would be kool--Relyk 23:19, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::I dont understand why you think this build is so great, the bar I posted previously is far better cus it attacks just as fast, does alot more damage, and has aoe. Theres no point making the arguement that its probably gonna get nerfed cus it hasnt yet and until it does this build is rly not very good. Smity Smitington 23:36, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :::why r u using wota in pve smity?--Relyk 23:38, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::::Why would you use locust fury? That's a better question, and the answer to your question is because it increase critical strike percentage incredibly as well as increases the speed of death blossom. The reason for it is for energy management, if you try the build i posted without WoTA you will soon run out of energy from all the dagger attack spamming, even with critical eye instead of WoTA you still run out of energy, try it. Locust fury is to achieve a fast attack speed and with WoTA you can achieve an equal attack speed because it allows you to spam dagger attacks plus its not an enchantment and doesnt have a 1 second casting time. Smity Smitington 23:43, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :::::Or you could use Critical Eye and Zealous Daggers saving your elite skill slot. Selket Shadowdancer 23:46, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::Or you can be cool like me and try that and realize that you do run out of energy that way and cant perma spam like crazy. Smity Smitington 23:47, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :::::::Besides u guys act like Locust fury is such a great elite compared to WoTA..Smity Smitington 23:49, 30 August 2009 (UTC) ::::::::I can't say I have ever had energy issues using critical eye and zealous. Selket Shadowdancer 23:51, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :::::::::I actually went to ilse of nameless and just kept attacking on master of damage, u do run out of energy and have to auto attack to build it back up to use your dagger attacks again. Anyways, critical eye + zealous is pretty close to WoTA + zealous, either way, with my bar above whether you use WoTA or something else it still pwns the hell out of the locust fury bar. Smity Smitington 23:55, 30 August 2009 (UTC) try this: prof=A/W dag=12+1+1 cri=12+1optionalEyeScanStrikeAssaultFangsBlossomYourselves!"/build Smity Smitington 23:57, 30 August 2009 (UTC) :I meant why the fk aren't you using critical agility instead of wasting your elite slot--Relyk 21:09, 31 August 2009 (UTC) Make res sig optional. critical defenses and save yourselves are both unnecessary in this build. just because your hitting with a lot of attacks, it doesn't mean save yourselves is mandatory because it has uber synergy. Spamming dw will kill stuff faster than training it to death with autoattacks and you do something with ur excessive energy. People can add death blossom in for aoe damage if they want, or bring sy, critical defenses, brawling headbutt, or any amount of other variants. Dash is totally optional as well. Don't put locust fury in a single cookie cutter build, it won't get vetted that way.--Relyk 21:21, 31 August 2009 (UTC) ::so wut is the point of having LF in the above build? Flesh Atrophy 22:40, 31 August 2009 (UTC) :::somehow way of the assasin is "fucking terrible", but apparently locust fury is godly as hell Smity Smitington 00:36, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::: ya, if ur just tabbing or charging up some awesome adrenal skill. other than that, having a full skill chain on bar is a waste. i understand why blck mantis is on there, but not DW. may as well bring a while sin bar Flesh Atrophy 01:01, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::::cause taking <1 second to dw a guy kills ur damage?--Relyk 01:23, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::::: I've been using a mobieus variant for quite sometime, here it is prof=A/W dag=12+1 cri=12+1+1Fox StrikeFang StrikeBlossomStrikeGreat Justice!"Yourselves!" (Kurzick)AgilityOptional/build you really dun need FGJ!, i just threw it in there, cause the super fast SY is nice, optional can be whatever, usually asuran scan thoughDBreezy 01:34, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :..............the whole point of this build is to NOT USE A MOEBIUS BUILD Flesh Atrophy 01:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :: Damn, I shoulda read it, oh well, lol.DBreezy 01:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::God, it's amazing how terrible PvX is. :::@Relyk, the ONLY reason to run this over MS>DB is to have higher adren gain to fuel SY, it's the only reason. Yeah, with buffs this gets good DPS, but MS>DB gets almost as much and doesn't get outstripped in damage until you bring like 5 buffs. However, if you read near the end of the archived page, I explain how if you can maintain SY better than MS>DB, you can drop the N/Rt in Sab/Discord and run a smite hero with SoH and Splinter (to help compete with DB's AoE) and still have about the same amount of offense and defense. Also, running attack skills with LF is bad in general, unless it's only one attack and used for utility purposes. :::@Smity, WotA is fucking terrible because CA+CE does everything it does, but better. Stop arguing for it, you're just making your arguments that much less valid. And LF isn't a great elite, it just provides a second IAS for crazy high attack speeds. 0.5s attacks also provide a second IAS, but if you don't think they won't be nerfed (in PvP at the very least, but I really don't see them making PvE versions..), then you really have no idea what you're talking about. If by some miracle they aren't nerfed next update, I'll change this build to use them, as I've already said at least once. :::@Flesh, the point is just to make another viable build outside of Moebius and Crit Scythe. I know from actually using it that in H/H it performs almost exactly as well as MS>DB, and also is so easy (yeah, even easier than MS>DB) that you can focus more of your attention on microing heroes. It's really barely even an advantage, but it's worth noting, considering it's one of the few differences. Also this has room for Dash and other shit. --JaiGoesMonksassin 02:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC) ::::What is with this retarded bias that you shouldn't run attack skills with Locust's Fury. You have plenty of room for attack skills. More importantly, you have room for Golden Fang Strike, which is spammable Deep Wound, which is the best thing for killing shit in the entire game. If you want splinter weapon and soh, put sw back on the necro healer and bring a RoJ Monk. You don't need sy tocover for dropping the N/Rt. Not having sy up won't break the game for you, PvE is not that hard. If your telling me that the only reason to run this is because you can maintain Save Yourselves a little bit more often than Moebius Strike, then you've been doing it wrong. You're a fucking sin, kill stuff. Otherwise go play a Paragon and gtfo--Relyk 03:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::::You're legitimately stupid to try and sell this bar on a site that has at least twenty times rejected every single skill-for-skill dupe of it since the release of factions, with the only exception being Fear Me! builds in PvP which were nerfed over a year ago. Keep running this shit. It still scores less DPS than MS/DB, even in a heavily specced team, and it will never even come close to 120 holy damage quick-activating spammable DW scythe bars that roll through any elite mission or late-game area swarming with undead monsters. It's no where close to viable. --[[User:Shazam The Assassin|'Shazzy]][[User Talk:Shazam The Assassin|diddles']] 03:56, 1 September 2009 (UTC) ::::::Scythe sins are unrelated--Relyk 04:05, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::::::@Shaz, you gave an example of the typical misconceptions people about LF. Times change, SY's are invented, AScans get buffed, and Strengths of Honor get godmoded. The main reason why LF was never accepted is because it couldn't shit out tons of damage like MS>DB could, but now with the retardedly powerful SoH, this can easily compete with Moebius' DPS. If you don't believe me, then either look at the archived page, or go fucking try the build and notice how it actually works almost exactly like MS>DB. I mean, I will admit that I normally just theorycraft on everything, but I've actually both crunched the numbers and tested the build, and what I've found is that it's at least equal to MS>DB, if not just a tad bit better. :::::::@Relyk... Attack skills can't double strike... LF's only use is increasing the amount of double strikes... When you use an attack skill, you are removing your elite. Unless the attack skill is a .5s skill that also provides some sort of needed utility, there's absolutely no point in running one. GFS is a good skill, but in that time I can attack twice and do like 150 damage, which is more than a deep wound (DW caps out at 100 damage, if you didn't know). If it was .5s cast, I'd mainbar it (while losing all faith in GW's balance), but otherwise, it's crap here. Also, I herd you can only have 3 heroes. SS+MM+Smiter is gud. SS/MM+shitty-healer-with-Splinter+Smiter isn't gud. And I'm telling you that this is equal to Moebius (with Dash...), and not much else. And paragons don't shit out damage from their ass, mouth, ears and eyes all at once like sins do :( --JaiGoesMonksassin 04:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC) ::::::::Can you guys stop writing such huge walls of texts? Nobody is going to read any of them. Drahgal Meir 05:30, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::::::::No one reads anyways gtfo. The time it takes to use bmt->gfs compared to how much you hit autoattacking is about the same, ur just taking ~1/4 second using bmt. golden fang does dw (+100 damage) in addition to a normal attack which would be 75 damage like you said in addition to bmt. anyways, you don't need save yourselves in every area you go into, because i really hope you don't need sy in nm. This also applies when you have an imbagon in your group, why would you bring sy then? the other bad thing about sins and any frontliner is that they can die sometimes, then your left without sy your heros obviously rely on. paragons dont have this probably cause they're behind the frontline with frontline armor. The frontline protects your party, not save yourselves--Relyk 06:10, 1 September 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::I see no valid reason why anyone would want to use Locusts Fury over MS/DB on HM. Devika 09:47, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::Relyk, you don't seem to understand. There is no point running LF without SY, because MS>DB outstrips its damage in general. And your frontline/midline argument is another reason why Crit Defenses is useful, tbh. And also, for BMT+GFS you're wasting two slots that you could have used much better just to get a DW. If you want to use attack skills, then take Jagged/BMT>Exhausting for an actual increase in damage and attack speed. And just to restate it again so you can't miss it, if you are not running SY here, then run MS>DB instead. @Devika, I see no valid reason why people think this build is inferior to MS>DB, and I for one have the numbers and testing to prove it. You people all just have retarded preconceptions about the build, and aren't actually using your heads. --JaiGoesMonksassin 13:36, September 1, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::::No valid reason? MS/DB pumps out more AoE, seems Locust Fury lacks any AoE, and most definitely more single target armour ignoring damage. The only selling point of Locusts Fury is the ability to spam Save Yourselves, but you can do that just fine with MS/DB aswell. Devika 00:50, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Also here's screens that compare, MS/DB vs Locusts Fury straight, with no buffs that affect damage. Remembering that any buffs that can be put on one can be applied to the other anyway. http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4972/gw019q.jpg http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/5813/gw020k.jpg In a straight up vs MS/DB deals double the amount of damage Locust Fury does and then you still have the AoE damage to consider on top. Devika 10:45, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :now use critical agility and critical eye and see the difference in damage then--Relyk 11:11, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::I have to do the tests on my PvP Assassin as I deleted my PvE Assassin. Here are the exact same tests using Frenzy (which is exactly the same attack speed and wasn't a problem to maintain on either) and Critical Eye: http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7030/gw021v.jpg http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7316/gw022f.jpg There's still a significant damage difference, and there's still AoE damage to consider. Devika 11:31, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::Also, Hundred Blades pumps out more DPS and AoE along with +al & +health from wielding a shield. http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9274/gw023q.jpg Locusts Fury is inferior to Hundred Blades, nevermind MS/DB. You can throw on all the buffs and hexes you want, but Hundred Blades and MS/DB can have exactly the same buffs and hexes thrown on too. Devika 11:40, September 2, 2009 (UTC) And finally the difference when you bring soh in addition to crit agility and critical eye :D--Relyk 12:01, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :With the buffs you mention Relyk Locusts Fury manages to squeeze ahead of Hundred Blades for single target damage yet still lacks the AoE damage Hundred Blades or even MS/DB deals. MS/DB still wipes the floor with Locusts Fury. http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2964/gw024h.jpg http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/5816/gw026qbg.jpg http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4584/gw027q.jpg In conclusion Locusts Fury takes outside help to even be made viable and is not self sufficient enough to be superior to MS/DB or even Hundred Blades. Devika 12:52, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :Sigh, terrible data is terrible. First of all, HB is bad and there's absolutely no point in trying to compare it here (DS+SY is a better comparison. Second, GW is a team game, and you have three heroes to use to give "outside help." You fail to realize that MS>DB can't generally afford to take SoH in a regular 3-nec build (discord or sab, either one). However, with LF you have much better SY maintainability, which means you can drop the necro healer for a smiter. So considering everything, you should compare MS>DB without SoH and LF with; at this point, MS>DB has 77 DPS, and LF has 92. If you had read what I've been saying for months, you would figure this out. -- Jai''writes'' 14:40, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::Hundered Blades is bad? Numbers don't lie. Without Strength of Honour Hundred Blades is actually better than Locusts Fury, the proof is in the pictures. The AoE effect makes Hundred Blades fairly strong even though it lacks in single target damage with Strength of Honour against Locusts Fury, hence why it sees use in team builds designed to take advantage of it (Mark of Pain, Splinter Weapon, both skills you've been trying to throw up to defend this build, yet Hundred Blades does it better given just one HB Warrior can take down an entire mob with just one or two strikes) MS/DB can afford to take Strength of Honour, most certainly no less than Locusts Fury, if you think for one second that MS/DB is not capable of keeping Save Yourselves up you're deluding yourself. Also trying to compare Locusts Fury with Strength of Honour to MS/DB without it kind of degrades your argument. Save Yourselves maintainability isn't as big a deal as you try to make it out to be to not be able to take a hero with Strength of Honour. Lastly it might be a team game, but if you want it to be rated upon team effectivness then make a team build, because on it's own it will be judged by how self sufficient it is, and on it's own it's damage is lacklustre compared to Hundred Blades or MS/DB as already proven. It's one thing to expect healers to supply your heals, that's what they're there for, but to expect your party to provide damage for you, just so you can spam Save Yourselves, when you could just take MS/DB and spam Save Yourselves and do damage is pretty pointless. Devika 15:36, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::I have already written counter-arguments to every single thing you've said, besides HB, so I'm not going to repeat myself for the nth time. And HB is only really good when it's in a completely specialized tanknspank-type build, otherwise known as Manlyway. In general PvE it gets beaten out by DS+SY and Earthshaker in overall usefullness. And just so we're clear, this requires exactly one skill outside of its own bar, SoH, to be on par with or better than MS>DB in damage, and it easily affords this because it maintains SY about twice as well as MS>DB in practice. -- Jai''writes'' 15:53, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::You can't really argue with numbers. Straight up MS/DB & HB is better than this, simple fact with proof given above, not only on single target damage, but also on AoE damage. Throw Strength of Honour on and MS/DB is still better than this. You're trying to compare MS/DB without Strength of Honour with this with Strength of Honour, that's just dumb. MS/DB maintains Save Yourselves just fine, there's no need to take a lacklustre elite to dedicate your build to maintaining it, and gimping not only your damage but also immediately restricting one of your heroes secondaries, attributes, and skill slots, when you don't need to. Also like you said, it requires outside help to be even on par with MS/DB, nver mind MS/DB with Strength of Honour, and it still lacks any form of AoE damage. Case closed. Devika 20:39, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::::With MoP on your team and IAS on the Sin, LF far outshines MS/DB due to a massive amount of MoP triggers. --- -- ( ) (talk) 20:42, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::::So the armour ignoring AoE from Death Blossom, which is a double strike, means nothing then, no? Also that's assuming foes are bunched up enough in the first place, which is rarely the case with hero and hench. So now what you're all saying is that you need Mark of Pain and Strength of Honour, just for Locusts Fury to be good? Team build? Viable. Solo? Not. Devika 20:51, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::::::Devika, if you're going to ignore all other evidence given to you, then I'm done arguing with you. I've already said the same thing about ten times now, and people at PvX are apparently too thick to figure it out. I know myself that this deserves to be vetted fairly, but the stigma of LF is too deeply ingrained within the shitters here that I don't see myself making any headway. I'll probably still write something up on LF for the hell of it, but I don't care all that much anymore. -- Jai''writes'' 03:15, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::I think it's a good build, just keep a copy of it on your user page, there is not shame in a build receiving a low score on this website. Smity Smitington 03:17, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::QQ moar tbh. Devika 12:35, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::I'm not QQ tbh, troll more tbh, I'm saying don't let it get you down that your builds dont get good ratings, they are only gonna get good ratings if they are super optimized for super optimized teams and good guilds use them. The imbasin idea is great but for optimised teams all the defense isn't really needed and the build should focus on doing even more damage and utility. For most average teams or very difficult areas where alot of defense is needed, this build would be great, so I simply recommend to Jai to keep it on his user page and perhaps explain when it is good to use this build and when it is good to use one with more damage. Smity Smitington 15:24, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::Smity, you're fucking retarded.... This pumps out massive damage if you don't fail. -- Jai''writes'' 15:30, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::Jai we know it does damage, but you can't admit that if you devoted more skills to damage instead of defense it would actually do even more damage? Smity Smitington 16:36, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::::Uh huh. And what would you suggest? It's already used its PvE slots, and A/W really doesn't have many options for damage buffs. I've already stated that Crit Defenses/Res Sig is there because there isn't anything else to put. -- Jai''writes'' 16:41, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::::I've already suggested some builds that attack just as fast to be able to spam "SY" but do alot of damage because they don't have as high self defense. Plus alot of people have suggested Mobiues/Death Blossom, alot more damage there, but currently you don't really need mobiues to spam death blossom (jagged->fox fangs->death blossom). If you want to do more damage take the builds people have suggested otherwise be content in the fact that your build is very solid for occasions when you would need alot more defense and need to help the party out. Any sin could be buffed with Strength of honor or what ever so that arguement isn't entirely effective, their additional damage would just stack on top of that to produce more damage than imbasin. Smity Smitington 16:51, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::::::You. Are. Fucking. Terrible. -- Jai''writes'' 16:55, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::QQQQQQQQQ!!!!!!!!! Locusts Fury is serious business folks. Truth! Devika 17:01, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::You'd QQ too if you had 89 fucking kilobytes all on the exact same argument over and over. -- Jai''writes'' 17:09, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Jai if u ever need a friend or just someone to talk to I'm here for you man. Smity Smitington 17:55, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::Confessions of a PvX scrub, oh baby... If it makes you feel better the other build is better. Devika 17:56, September 3, 2009 (UTC) Lol@Smity. Also, I know that the other build is better. I know exactly how good all of the good sin builds are. I know that the other build is superior to this in every way. I also know that it probably won't last long before it gets hit by the nerf bat. At that point, MS>DB and this are back on an even playing field. I'm not going to explain it again why this is as good as Moebius, either. -- Jai''writes'' 18:37, September 3, 2009 (UTC) adren gain imo i believe imbagon works much more effectively than this. 1st imbagon holds EBSoH better and boost the damage if the person using it has common knowledge of placing them properly. 2nd. you will be on the front line while building up your adrenaline and seeming as the AI enjoys targeting the lowest AR it can get its hands on, your going to be the one taking most of the damage. lastly. it lacks other support skills such as TNtF and anthem of flame/weariness if you choose to take it. Moosymoose 12:06, 1 September 2009 (UTC) :only problem there is you cant go A/P/W. ups.-- 12:17, 1 September 2009 (UTC) ::exactly, imbagon carries TNTF focused anger+FGJ IAS damage support and SY where this build can only carry IAS and SY. :::Imbagon can't come anywhere near close to the damage this has. As in, it might be half the DPS, at best. The only thing Imbagon has on this is TNTF and being ranged meaning more reliable adren gain (faster target swapping and less vulnerability to snares/kiting). Comparing the two is like comparing a ranger and a warrior in PvP. It doesn't work because they don't play the same role. By the way, this has 90-95 AL and a 75% block chance. If your monk can't handle one person having slightly less armor than everyone else, then get a new monk. --JaiGoesMonksassin 13:44, September 1, 2009 (UTC) ::::Honestly it is a cool build. If you need alot of defense for yourself and you want to help the party alot, this build will definetly make you happy. Smity Smitington 21:31, September 1, 2009 (UTC) :::::Imo killing stuff faster always takes priority over defense--Relyk 01:33, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::::I've proven time and again that this provides almost the same amount DPS, both single target and AoE (2 copies of Splinter ftw). It also has slightly better defense and has Dash which actually comes in fairly handy for getting to the next enemy and helps to prevent or lessen any gaps in SY. Give me a day or two and I'll write some crap up summarizing exactly why this can go even with MS>DB. -- Jai''writes'' 02:54, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::::::you act like you only use splinter weapon with lf :/--Relyk 08:05, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::I use a second Splinter with LF because I drop the nec healer. So yeah, I've found the AoE DPS to be at least comparable to MS>DB's. -- Jai''writes'' 14:43, September 2, 2009 (UTC) :::::::::use splinter with ms/db? --'Oj'▲' ' 16:22, September 2, 2009 (UTC) ::::::::::^^^^DBreezy 16:29, September 2, 2009 (UTC) WTB People who aren't inbred retards. Oh wait, this is PvX, nevermind. -- Jai''writes'' 13:01, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :Pretty sure slavery was abolished, so buying people is frowned upon in most places ^^Flesh Atrophy 13:09, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::nou Jai''writes'' 13:11, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :tl;dr the stuff above. A MB/DB sin can spam SY too, and it's already mainbarred or varianted on most sin bars. That makes this just another Locust's sin compared to the strong damage of the other builds. --'-Chaos-' 13:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::This is the last time I'm saying this... If you'd actually played MS>DB, you'd know it doesn't maintain SY well at all. It attacks slower and even under perfect circumstances it takes more than a second longer to charge than LF. Once you factor in kiting and target switching, the gap becomes larger because Dash helps a lot to prevent downtimes. I would be willing to bet that in actual practice, LF maintains SY about twice as well. And because of this, you can bring a smite support hero intead of a healer for SoH and a second copy of Splinter, which pushes the single target damage above MS>DB's, and the AoE about the same, or slightly lower (though adjacent AoE really isn't incredibly useful, especially in H/H groups). ::But at the moment this trumps MS>DB, LF, and even scythesins right now, though it won't last long most likely. -- Jai''writes'' 14:15, September 3, 2009 (UTC) :::Surely I can during 6s build up 8 adrenaline, if every other attack gives atleast 2 adrenaline? I could also use a furious mod (is energy fine with MS/DB or does it req zealous?). IAS is my buddy here. And I don't think situations come when you'd desperately need to maintain SY 0.5s longer, or something. SY mitigates the damage away in the first place neways. --'-Chaos-' 14:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC) ::::Jai, you've already got one "SY!" spamming sin build vetted. Why don't you count that as a win and be done with it? ::::We all get it. Sins are good at spamming "SY!", but I really don't think we need 4 builds (or however many it is) to show us how to do it. If the purpose of this build is solely to maintain "SY!", then this is a WELL to Imbagon. If the purpose is to do damage WHILE spamming "SY!", then we already have builds that do that better (one of them is yours). Face facts. This is a WELL one way or another. 18:43, 3 September 2009 :::::God, just look up at the post two above yours. I clearly state that currently the attack spammer build is better than both this and Moebius. However, it's mostly guaranteed to be nerfed next update. At that point, this goes back to being the best option for spamming SY while still dealing damage. -- Jai''writes'' 19:18, September 3, 2009 (UTC) baww my build go trashed pvx is a bunch of retarded elitists --'Oj'▲' ' 03:14, September 5, 2009 (UTC) So how about dropping the idea of using "Save Yourselves!", I know; it's blasphemy.. but hear me out. Using "Dodge This!" with "For Great Justice!" would provide an unblockable hit every 2 hits. Every single hit if you are on a target with Mark of Fury or under the effects of Dark Fury. Obviously, as with any build with Locust's Fury, you should try to get as many possible hits in as little time as you can. This is where the newly buffed Jagged Strike comes in (also, yes: it does increase your amount of hits in the same time period, and spamming shouldn't be a problem with 13 Critical Strikes and Critical Eye.) So now you have a bit more damage, and a couple more hits in the same amount of time. Now on to the goodies, as single target damage isn't worth the loss of "SY!" on its' own. Asuran Scan increases all damage from your attacks and buffs that already increase your attack damage, including Order of Pain, Strength of Honor (which is insane), Great Dwarf Weapon (even more insane as you'll knocklock and get added damage) and Ebon Battle Standard of Honor. With Asuran Scan all damage from these buffs, is increased by 47- to 75%. Depending on your asuran title. As I said earlier, with dark fury or mark of fury being used, your attacks are also unblockable if you can spam "Dodge This!" about 3 times per second if using Jagged Strike. Since you now have a shout ending on you every second at least twice, Finale of Restoration and Purifying Finale also create some great synergy. You now have some decent frontline defenses too (along with critical agility which already increases your armour.) The good thing about all these buffs is that you can use them on several party members, the bad part is you'll need 1 Order, 1 Smiter for full damage and 1 other player (who can obviously also fill the role of order or smiter.) Using a curse necro is obviously recommended due to the devastating effects of Mark of Pain (and Barbs, while this would probably go to waste due to foes dying too fast.) I'll round it off as it's getting late and I'm drifting off the subject. So there ya go, some food for thought on the usage of Locust's Fury. P.S. another reason not to run LF for the sole reason of spamming "Save Yourselves!" is you'll get 8 strikes of adrenaline long before SY! has even run out. ~OldGeek :So in other words, you want to sacrifice all defensive support this has, and use 2-3 other slots to push out damage that Moebius (or better yet, the Attack Spammer build) could get just as easily get if it had those buffs... And that's with the others taking SY, too. The only reason why this is viable now is because SoH allows you to use exactly ONE outside skill to put this on par with Moebius in damage, and that it can take SY and use it better than Moebius. Otherwise, if you don't take SY it lacks both in damage and defense compared to the other sin builds. Believe me, I've considered just about everything possible with LF, and this is the only viable version of any of them. -- Jai''writes'' 15:12, September 10, 2009 (UTC) ::LF will still trigger on-hit damage much faster. It's up to your team to decide whether it's worth it or not.-- 17:18, September 10, 2009 (UTC) :::How about "Dodge This!" with Blazing Finale (you would probably need a para supporter, maybe an Imbagon or something if you aren't taking SY! yourself)? That way you'd be getting ublokable attacks every 2 hits or so and constant AoE burning. Might also synergize nicely with SF eles so they can do massive dmg right away, but I digress. Possibly you could also throw in Whirlwind Attack or something to net you loads of extra hits (and thus more energy and adrenaline), especially since it'd be charging really fast with LF, probably even with the "DT!" spamming. Or you could take "Go for the Eyes!" and spam that too. 13:14, September 11, 2009 (UTC) So This is now better in every way, and is unlikely to be nerfed in any of the foreseeable future. So it's back to usespace for this bitch. -- Jai''writes'' 20:24, September 20, 2009 (UTC)